Season 4: Claire Stroh Shares her Career Coaching Expertise

Full Transcript

Tom Horne:

Welcome to All About HR. I’m your host Tom Horne, and I’m on a journey to learn about all things HR. I’m documenting my conversations with thought leaders, HR professionals, and real employees about everything from recruiting, workplace of the future, benefits, you name it. We’re all about HR. Let’s go.

Welcome back to All About HR. We are kicking off season four. I cannot believe we have made it four seasons. But here we are. It is a really special episode for a variety of reasons. #1, I didn’t think we’d get here. #2 I am recording live at a beautiful resort sitting poolside, and #3 who’s sitting next to me. Claire Stroh is live in person with me at the Interlochen Omni Resort in Broomfield, Co. I am so excited to be doing this live, so excited to finally meet Claire. So, let’s do a quick intro. Look, most of you know, Claire, some of you may not.

She is currently Director of Technology Talent Management at Lighthouse Technology Services, President and CEO of Claire is Coaching. She has used LinkedIn and Twitter to build a personal brand and uncover new opportunities for herself and the companies she’s worked for and she’s passionate about helping others do the same. She is currently on the board of the Buffalo Niagara Human Resources Association, a member of SHRM’s Young Professional Advisory Council, and was named a 2022 HR Impact Award winner by Buffalo Business First. Claire, 2 feet away from me, welcome to All About HR.

Claire Stroh:

Wow, thank you so much, Tom. Yeah, obviously I feel like I’ve known you forever. So, coming and like, sitting here next to you recording this, I’m just like, hey, how you doing? Like we just talked on the phone. So it’s like I’ve known you forever. But this is beautiful. So glad I was in town and we can do this in person.

Tom Horne:

We’ll paint the picture. There’s multiple pools, kids, families, cocktails being drank all around us, sunshine. It’s beautiful. We’re in Denver, so there’s a thunderstorm rolling in so hopefully we can finish this podcast before that.

Claire Stroh:

Happens, yeah.

Tom:

You know, I saw Steve Brown on Twitter, has been really reposting about the power of the HR community hashtag and kind of re-inventing that. I’ve retweeted and recommitted myself because this community is massive and it’s massively important. Like I met you two years ago on Twitter. Face to face for the first time ever, and it does feel like we’ve been friends for as long as I can remember.

Claire:

It does, yeah. I love the online HR community. I can’t say enough about it.

Tom:

Yeah, it’s a real genuine one. So, if you’re listening to this and you’re not following the HR community hashtag, I would push for that. Big ups for Steve Brown for pushing that lately. And I guess that hashtag literally helped put Claire and me at the same table here.

Claire:

#HR community. I try to use it and everything I post, so I recommend everyone does that too. Use it so other people can find you and you can make new friends.

Tom:

Hashtags only work when you use them. Yes, just like your HR and TA teams. I also want to give Claire a huge shout-out. We recorded a podcast in May and I had technical difficulties and blew the whole thing.

I don’t even know. I can’t even tell you what happened. I’ve been so embarrassed about that. And for Claire to handle it so politely, nicely, and generously, and to spend more time having to talk with me. Really thankful, Claire. Thank you for doing this twice.

Claire:

I feel like the universe had its plans though. I don’t know if I had my two weeks to be in Denver planned yet when the audio went wrong, so it was meant to be. We could do it in person now which is even better.

Tom:

Yeah, I was dreading asking you to come back and do it. When I saw you were in Denver I was like, oh, I we’ve got to pull this thing off.

So you know, talking about HR community, I met somebody new this week, which I think is important to talk about. It’s not always the same, it’s a fluid group. There are always new people joining, but I chatted with Matt Meadows from Work Story two days ago or I guess a couple of days ago. What a really, really cool guy. I was going through Twitter before this and I saw you had connected and realized you know, he seems new on it but he’s really connected with a lot of people quickly.

Claire:

Yeah, Matt’s great. And you’re right. Power of the HR community. One day I just saw he followed me. I followed him back. I sent him to DM. I was just like, hey, what are you doing? Looks like you’re building something cool, let’s hop on a call. And we had a Zoom call, got introduced and I’m actually going to be reaching back out to him. I think I could use his product for some of my clients. But yeah, we just chit-chatted on the dreaded annual performance review. Everybody can relate to that. And yeah, love what he’s building and glad he’s part of the online HR community and making more friends.

Tom:

Yeah, great guy and seems to be doing it a great way. And I agree. It’s funny. Just the performance management offshoot here, but everyone does the performance management that Jack Welsh built for GE. And somehow every company, whether you’re 10 people, whether you’re in a completely different industry, is using the exact thing that was built for a giant company like GE. And it does work in a lot of use cases, but it’s not the cornerstone of performance management and I think there’s enough people talking about it. But I really like Matt and Work Story’s perception—this is turning into a commercial.

Sorry if you’re a performance management company. You know we love you too. But I do think the idea of continuous feedback loops are where it’s at today. Not just sitting down and killing managers with three weeks of hell. Doing hours and hours of performance management on top of their work, mostly based on what they remember from probably the last month or two, but really continuous. I think it’s a great space, whether it’s Matt’s company or not, I think that’s where it’s at.

Claire:

I agree. Even as an HR person, I remember having to do my annual review for like my CHRO and I was like, wow, I would have loved to be prompted more throughout the year and not have to have kept my own notes on the side or whatever. So anyways yes, love what Matt’s doing.

Tom:

And since you mentioned that, like I definitely remember one year just not trusting my manager and just taking notes of all the good stuff I did because I was like, there is no way any of this is going to get recognized. And I have to like now counter the performance review with my own review.

Claire:

You have to. I teach my team that now. Everyone who reports to me, we have Microsoft planners set up and I’m like, you keep track of all your stuff because it’s been drilled into my head over the years. You have to have your accomplishments and stuff ready to go like at all times because other people will forget. So I think it’s on you to track it, but yeah, it would be nice to have a nice platform like Matt’s to help you out. So yes.

Tom:

Track your accomplishments!

Claire:

It’s a good reminder.

Tom:

It’s like empowering HR. Make sure you always have a business case for what you’re doing. Make sure you aways have a business case for ROI on what you’re doing. HR is always on the left side of the line. Oh, you’re not a revenue generator. You’re a profit generator. You control so much profit for companies, big or small, by what you do and the people you bring on and the process you have. So make sure you have those accomplishments. Make sure you know how to talk about them, whether it’s for a performance review or not.

Claire:

And if you need help tracking or planning those, you just let me know because I’m very organized. I’ve got some tools up my sleeve to keep track.

Tom:

Yes you do. If there’s one thing I know about Claire, she is organized. And you have to be and I want to kind of get into everything and everything you’re doing. But everyone gets the first official question on All About HR. What are you listening to right now?

Claire:

Right now, EDM and dance music. So that’s kind of always my favorite. But I recently went to a show in Pittsburgh to see Illenium. So one of my favorite these days, he’s incredible. And then William Black was an opener for him as well. They’re both really, really good. So anyways, if you’re into EDM and need William Black or Illenium Recs, let me know, but Deep End and Deep Blue are both very good.

The first word “deep” leading off must, I don’t know, be signifying for something in that industry.

Tom:

And that’s EDM, right? Like you’ve got to go deep right.

Claire:

You’re right, that must be what it is.

Tom:

It’s not really surface level music, yeah, but if you can go deep with it and you can kind of get a layer down like there’s a lot going on.

Claire:

So those two songs are awesome and then podcast-wise I love Case Kenny. His podcast is New Mindset Who Dis. So, he’s big on Instagram as well as his podcast on Apple and Spotify, but he does really quick 15-20 minute episodes, which I love. Mindset tips typically. So new perspective on things, a lot of relationship advice, but I can always take that into other aspects of my life. So really good. I like him.

Tom:

Absolutely, everything’s layered. I always say this, there’s not work and play. They should both be intertwined. There’s not, this is how I manage my work and then my life. Everything’s transferred, so I love that you said that. Alright, moving on down our train here.

Man, it’s beautiful out. It just cooled off, it Just dropped like 10 degrees. I’m like, absolutely loving sitting here right now.

But let’s talk about work. Lighthouse Technology. What’s your role there? What are you doing? Tell us a little bit about your work life.

Claire:

Yes, so I currently lead a team of five. At Lighthouse, we do tech recruiting as well as IT-managed services. So, I lead the recruiting team and I have a co-director on the services side who meets with small to medium-sized businesses and does their outsource help desk, server monitoring, etc.

My team of five, we’re awesome, of course. I have 4 folks that specialize really in the recruiting side, so working with candidates to source, screen, and submit essentially. And then I have one HR specialist who onboards all those awesome people that we recruit, checks in with them during their assignments, I use the word assignments because we are mainly in the tech consulting space. So folks that we recruit and hire are on our W2, but they’re doing some awesome sort of IT upgrade project or something like that for a client of ours in the community. Our HR specialist works with them during the duration of their time with us. So yeah, I essentially lead tools, technology, team, and process for talent acquisition. It’s super fun. I love it.

Tom:

I just had an epiphany listening to you talk about the roles in your organization. And it’s something I talk about a lot but you have TA that’s bringing in top talent. You have hiring managers that are essentially a client that have to manage the top talent, and then you got the talent that’s smashed in between the two. But that’s why onboarding and having focused onboarding is so important because that handoff, so many companies don’t do that handoff. And off they go from the interview process to just straight hiring manager and it’s like this cultural 180. And I felt that, you know, in some of my jobs. I’m like, I know that this is what the company feels like. And then when I get onboarded I’m like, whoa, this feels totally different. And I don’t know is that your experience? Is that why you have those roles to help bridge that gap? I’ve never really thought about that clearly, but that seems to make a lot of sense.

Claire:

Yeah, that’s a really good point, especially in the contract and consulting type work. There’s information we’re sharing about working with us and then information they need to know about their specific client or project they’re about to join. So our HR specialist has a really important job of keeping all of that straight. Certain clients have requirements in terms of their background checks or whatever that are different from everybody else’s. They have specific paperwork that needs to be completed. We do a lot of remote work too, so different states require different things as we all know, fun work being HR pros.

But yeah, her communication is top notch, so it’s definitely needed to obviously help people get ready and get started on the right foot. Especially working remote. There’s so much you’ve got to take in and prepare for before you start a new assignment. That kind of setup has been working well for us. Once that offer is accepted, she takes it over and starts communication with them. So sends the offer letter, all the way through till their first day, doing their I9 and all of that, and then checks in with them periodically while they’re there, just to see how things were going.

Tom:

That’s great, that’s essential stuff.

Claire:

Yeah, it really is. That should be the basics to be honest.

Tom:

Maybe we’re outliers here but that sounds pretty essential to me.

So you’re in talent acquisition, it’s my favorite group of people. If you listen to the podcast, you probably heard me say I love it. I love watching TA people on Twitter and LinkedIn. A lot of people will tell me, you should be in talent acquisition and my response is like, I love it, but I see what you guys post all day. It’s like a bull fight out there right now. Why is it so hard?

Claire:

That’s a great question. I mean, everyone has opinions. So that definitely makes it hard. I think for me. So we have really good—

Tom:

Yeah, in your perspective. I don’t want to ask you to solve the world here. Yes, this is Claire’s perspective I’m asking for.

Claire:

Thank you. So for me and my team recruiting luckily is not the issue. We have good tools, we have good recruiters, we get good submittals and so that’s awesome. The part that keeps me up at night that makes it so hard is then once those candidates hit the hiring managers’ laps, desks, whatever you want to say. Once that submittal kind of happens, it’s that relationship with them. Every hiring manager is so different obviously. All my recruiters have different styles too, but it’s like once it gets to them then we really need to turn into those consultants where it’s like, how are we going to work this process? What would you prefer? What does your calendar allow?

Try to coach them, obviously, on conducting their interviews if they’re newer to doing that. There are so many variables that then happen when the hiring manager comes into play, so that’s definitely a challenge. And yeah, a lot of what we’re seeing like posts out there right now on Twitter and LinkedIn are all these differences between I think recruiters and hiring managers, that’s a lot of what I’m seeing. The difficulty sometimes of working together. So yeah, there’s obviously a lot of different ways to go about it, I don’t think it’s ever going to be like a solved problem, but I guess going back to those essentials or basics.

Tom:

It’s like marketing and sales. They’re always going to have their different perspectives. Like there are better versions, there are worse versions, but at the end of the day like it’s always going to be some sort of coming together, compromise, give and take, push and pull because of just the different goals, responsibilities, and angles.

Claire:

Definitely. So I think just like those basics of onboarding, we just talked about, so communication and preparation and things like that. There are obviously some basics for this too in terms of interaction with your hiring managers, but then like you said, different expectations, personalities, it kind of runs wild from there, but that’s what keeps it fun. I love being a coach in the space, so got to coach your managers if it’s going to be a good kind of TA process so.

Tom:

Podcast/game show pitch here. We get TA and hiring managers, and have them debate and compete against each other. First part is like a debate where we ask questions and they debate who’s right and who’s wrong, and then the other, maybe we have them do some physical challenges like double dare versus each other. I feel like it’s the perfect group to debate and oppose each other in a game show or debate setting. Thoughts please.

Claire:

Can I add a second layer to that? OK, so my second layer would be I would start with that for sure, and then once we’re all like heated up and like against each other, round two is actually pairs of a hiring manager and a recruiter, versus another hiring manager and a recruiter. Then you can actually come together.

Tom:

See, I was agitating and you’re like bringing it back to like let’s agitate, let’s get it out, and then come back together.

Claire:

Yes, I like that. That would be a lot of fun. I think some of my managers would like that. They would enjoy that first part of telling me everything that they don’t like to do, that I make them do, and all these things for sake of candidate experience and whatever else. But then, once we’re together, they’d be like, you’re actually a really good partner, I think that’s what they would say.

Tom:

See, there is a happy ending.

Claire:

There is.

Tom:

Just following you on Twitter, LinkedIn, social, and Claire is Coaching it seems like you have three jobs. You’re speaking, you’re doing a lot of SHRM things, you’ve got Lighthouse. You’ve got Claire is Coaching. How do you do it all? I’m going to ask you two-part question. It’s not what you are supposed to do in podcasting, but we’ll try it. A) How do you do it all? and then B) Where are you focusing on most outside of your Lighthouse Technology work?

Claire:

Yeah, I love this because 2023 has really been my year of ‘no’, which I’m not good at saying no. I’m definitely a people pleaser. I like to pack my schedule for the sake of my mental health and whatever, because I can’t turn down any opportunities. So for one this year I’ve gotten really good at identifying other members of my team to send various speaking engagements or community volunteer events to. So that’s really helped me do it all this year.

So really glad I’m finally working on that.

It was terrible at first because I was like, oh, my God, what if this is the opportunity, you know, that was my mindset for everything. But then you get better at obviously, weighing those out. Other people really need a chance to build their skill sets and stuff too, so that’s been good. But again, a lot of planning, a lot of organization, a lot of notebooks, online tools, Microsoft Planner, to-do Trello boards, all the things. So staying very organized.

The biggest piece I love right now that I’m spending a lot of time on probably is my SHRM work. I guess I’ll call it SHRM work because my local HR community is affiliated with SHRM. But really my role I’ve gotten to create it and do what I want to do with it. So as the College Relations and Emerging Professionals Chair or whatever, we don’t have to do events as part of our role. It’s usually what the programming or professional development chair does on the board. But because I just love events and I’ve kind of come from that background, I made events part of my position.

 So I spend a lot of time on my HR Emerging Professional Learning Series which, shameless plug, we have September and October events booked, and our speakers are awesome. They’re all on Zoom and we do 101-type topics. I remember being an HR student. I had three very generic HR classes on culture, and I don’t even remember what else because I definitely didn’t use them on the job. I talked to a lot of HR students now that are in a similar boat and they would love a deep dive into all the different aspects of HR that there are. So we’ve done a Talent Acquisition 101, Learning and Development 101, Workers Comp and Safety. September we’re doing Mergers and Acquisitions 101 for the first time, that’s something I haven’t even really worked in as an HR Pro. So I would have loved to learn as a student. Like what does it mean to work in HR in M&A and like support that?

So yeah, I love event planning and love helping HR emerging professionals get connected to meaningful learning opportunities, how to grow their networks, and of course, get started in the field. Sometimes that’s differentiating yourself in the job market, things like that.

Tom:

Yeah, I love that point you bring about 101. It goes back to that old phrase that’s like “everything I needed to learn I learned in Kindergarten”. You know, I learned from Laurie Ruettimann’s book “Betting on You” that I’m a generalist and I’ve always hated that I’m a generalist. I’m kind of wide, but not deep. And the way I’ve been able to do that is because I’m always deep on the fundamentals. The 101s. Know your 101s, get wide on your 101s because when you have that then you can cover a lot of ground. And you can build up whether it’s at this vertical or that vertical. If you have that strong base, you can go up at any point you need to. So I love that focus on 101s. I think that’s not talked about enough. I think if you’re somebody that’s emerging and going into it, embrace the 101s. It’s not an insult. It’s not that you don’t know enough, even if you know your stuff, go back to the 101s because one of the best things I learned in college. The professor told me there’s a huge difference between being familiar with the topic and knowing the topic and the delta of that difference will define how good you are at what you. And I think a lot of people out there going, oh, 101s I’ve got this. I’ve been in HR forever. I guarantee you’re going to pull five or ten nuggets out of any of those types of courses, so I just love that focus. You really touched on something that that I’m passionate about too.

Claire:

You just brought up a good point that I don’t just see students and emerging professionals at my events. I actually started seeing more experienced HR pros who just don’t work in that area every day, so they want a refresher on M&A or Talent Acquisition or whatever. So that’s been really rewarding too, to see the HR community come out to a 101 event and not have that kind of thought hold them back of like, oh, I’ve been in HR forever. They’re like, nope, I could use a refresh on this.

Tom:

I’m learning tennis and I’m learning all these new shots, but I always have to come back to like I need to just work on my forehand and my backhand. All this other stuff goes away. I need to make sure that base, that 101 tennis is always there.

Sorry, a lot of tangents hanging out in our Country Club environment over here today.

Claire:

Yeah, I would love to play tennis soon. After this, we’ll get out.

. . .

Tom:

Alright, it is time for the HR Hot Sauce. It’s 90 degrees out. Perfect weather for this one with Claire. Claire, are you ready?

Claire:

Yeah, I’m ready. Let’s go.

Tom:

What is the best job you’ve ever had?

Claire:

Best job I ever had was working at the SPCA, so my local animal shelter, pet cats and dogs everyday can’t beat it.

Tom:

Take care of your pets.

What’s one phrase at work that drives you nuts?

Claire:

Hit the ground running. I’ve heard that five times a day from every hiring manager I work with, so let’s get a little bit more creative here, people.

Tom:

It’s a total HM statement.

Do you like working on rainy or sunny days?

Claire:

I would say rainy because if it’s sunny, I can’t stay in my chair, so no work happens.

Tom:

How can someone make your day at work?

Claire:

I would say just letting me know how they’re doing and like if I help them with anything. So it makes my day when someone comes to me and says something you shared was really helpful, something like that.

Tom:

Awesome.

Best useless skill?

Claire:

Tom, I’m Type A. I don’t know.

Tom:

I’m going to 100% accept that, that makes all the sense.

Mild, medium, hot, or nuclear?

Claire:

Mild, but I would say like nothing at all. I can’t do any level of spice. It’s terrible, unfortunately.

Tom:

Mild it is, yeah.

Favorite interview question to ask or be asked?

Claire:

I would say, what do you like to do for like professional development or to keep yourself fresh? I always learn about new groups and resources from people, so it’s fun. Just kind of swapping ideas and tools and stuff.

Tom:

Final question. Favorite song to bring you out of a funk?

Claire:

I’ve really been into the band With Confidence, so they have a song called We’ll be OK, so recently that’s been my jam.

Tom:

We will look it up and add it to our list. We’re done with HR Hot Sauce, back to the conversation.

. . .

So with your focus, I know you focus on developing emerging leaders, junior staff. However you want to phrase that, but how do you help coach them? How do you help people kind of get into the job market and then upskill from there? Let’s start with you being a TA person. People are trying to join the job market straight out of college or make a transfer from their jobs. What are some of the common mistakes? What are some of the things that they should focus on that you speak to in your coaching?

Claire:

Yes. So one of my favorite talks I’ve been doing lately for New York State SHRM and New York City SHRM as well, it was my first time doing it with them this year. It’s called Elevate and Uplift the Next Generation of HR Leaders. So this could work I guess for any college grad, but I take the HR perspective just because those are my people. I want to help them graduate and get into the field.

I talk a lot in that one about of course, getting your materials dialed in, your resume and all of that, but then more of like that networking and relationship building in the professional development stuff. So I still consider myself a young professional. I still get impostor syndrome. We all do. I don’t think age or experience really impacts that sometimes, but especially with students. Building your library of just context around things and that could be just from talking to someone at a networking event or taking a more formal class, a LinkedIn Learning, or SHRM event just gives you so much more to bring to the table next time you’re in a conversation or an interview.

I still get asked as a young professional like you look like you could be my daughter. Like how did you get this job? I still get those comments sometimes.

Tom:

Ohh man.

Claire:

So to be able to quickly have a response to that or I’ve been asked in an interview like you haven’t done this exact work like what would you do? And I can confidently say you’re right, I haven’t done that exact work but here’s the course I’ve taken on it. Here’s the person I’ve talked to in my network about it. So here’s what I do know. Am I on the right track? Like, how do we do it here at this company? And if you’re confident and you can turn it into a conversation and keep going like that skill alone has helped me a lot.

And I talked to and work with a lot of students now where their canned answer is no I don’t know that, but I can learn or I’m eager to learn. That’s a great part one to that but also you want to have something you can add to it. So keeping that focus on personal professional development. It really does help you combat a lot of unknown situations. Again, just having context to pull from. I feel like I kind of went off on a tangent there, but preparing to get into the workforce from school, you have to focus a lot on learning and meeting people and having conversations. That’s how you’ll learn better, I think.

Tom:

And it’s never been easier if you know how to do it, which is what you do in your coaching. It’s never been easier. There’s tools. You can find hashtags and follow them. HR community. You can follow newsletters on any topic in HR, any topic in any industry, or in any vertical and have it delivered to you. Straight to your inbox. But knowing where to go, how much is too much, what’s important, what’s not. That’s where the coaching, I think really, really helps out, because just because there’s a lot of resources doesn’t mean it’s easy. There are a lot of resources, but understanding what and how to balance those is important.

Claire:

Yes and if I can do a quick plug. I do have a post on my blog, called My Favorite HR Resources for Students and Emerging Professionals. And that’s exactly why I made that post because I just got a lot of questions like where should I start? What are some core places I can learn those fundamentals? So once I get asked a question like two or three times it’s got to go in a blog because I can’t re-type this out more than three times. It’ll drive me nuts, but you’re right. Just having that place to go to start. Sometimes it’s just not knowing where to start. So I love helping people get connected and then they can find some good stuff from there.

Tom:

It’s like how I described surveys. It’s not rocket science. Anyone can go do it. But knowing how to do it and understand the nuances are where the value really is.

All right, so you’re coming out. You’re building your market, you’re learning dos and don’ts. Cover letter resume. And this is a broad one. So, I’m asking you specifically here again, that’s why you’re on the podcast but what do you do, what do you don’t do? I saw someone post the other day. They’re like, stop making everything so fancy. Make it simple. Make it easy to read. Make it easy to digest.

What do you coach your clients, your partners, and emerging professionals on? What do you coach them to do with resumes and then what’s your opinion on cover letter?

Claire:

That’s a good question and my answer, I feel like I’ll expand on it, but my first answer, my first gut is I coach people to do what feels good and authentic to them. So like I have a template that works really well for me, but other people have like tried to use it or put their info in it and they it doesn’t help them speak to their accomplishments or keep themselves organized and things. So that’s why I work with all my clients on like every recruiter and hiring manager you talk to is going to have a different preference on format. So let’s just get the content dialed in. If the content describes you well, it’s good and authentic to you.

There’s so many different templates out there for resumes and cover letters, so we really do focus on getting the content dialed in and then we turn to those more, what I call like value generating activities like LinkedIn and networking and things like that. Because I find folks first instincts is to keep tweaking their resume, changing the format, changing the font, changing this and I’m like nope, let’s get the content done. Let’s describe you well. Let’s get confident on how to, like share about that in an interview and then let’s move on to those more value-added activities. I don’t think I have hard and fast tips on what exactly to do with your resume, but obviously just has to describe you well and have good content.

Tom:

Feel like if you’re giving advice in this space you can’t just give the tips because of what you just said. Yeah, like, yes, there’s a base, but you have to have it be expressive of who you are and what you’re trying to do.

Claire:

Year, and then the cover letter thing.

Tom:

Do you read them? Do you require them?

Claire:

I don’t require them. I rarely get them, but as a recruiter, I will say I always go to the resume first, but I will look for a cover letter or any type of additional attachments that were included with the application if I’m left unclear about something.

Tom:

Oh, okay so it’s for clarifying.

Claire:

Yeah, so that’s what I work with my clients on too. So if it’s going to be unclear to the recruiter why you’re applying, and it could be anything, your location is different, you’re transitioning to a different industry. If you need to describe kind of why you’re a good fit for the role, then we’ll make one. But again, I don’t have a hard and fast template for that either. It’s just like what do we really need to get to help your case? Just providing one to provide one with generic “I’m interested in this job” isn’t necessary and doesn’t help your case. So yeah, it depends on if you need one to help explain any unanswered questions.

Tom:

All right. So that’s the question I struggle with is it the same 3 paragraphs you’re supposed to do. I want this job because of X. This is what I’m doing and I’m really looking forward to the next X. Like, that’s what it was always kind of coached as. But I love your idea that if you’re writing a cover letter, make sure it clarifies your intentions. Do you care if it’s in like a super formalized format?

Claire:

I don’t.

Tom:

Like the TA people, do you think TA people look at that?

Claire:

I don’t know, we can’t go there, Tom it’s too general.

For me, I’m pretty informal, so I like when people are speaking to me as the reader. That’s how I try to write too. My materials and my LinkedIn stuff are using “I” speaking to who I think my reader is going to be and bringing my authentic personality and voice through to that. So again, that’s what I like to work with my clients on because I want them to feel good about it. I don’t want them to feel like they’re trying or pretending to be something they’re not. Like not some buttoned-up version of themselves or whatever or not how they would talk in their cover letter or something like that.

So, we try to find that balance. Of course, we’re not like, “hey, hiring manager” we’re still using appropriate language and things like that. We’ll always reiterate our interest if we’re going to do a cover letter. But yeah, we’ll focus on, like you said, the intention. So, if you’re moving to a certain area in a certain time frame, or if it’s a new position that you don’t already have something similar on your resume, we’re going to touch on those key skills or experiences that are transferable, that they’re looking for in the job description that you have from a past experience. Just making it a little bit more clear if your resume isn’t what they’re looking for right now or if what you’re doing isn’t what they’re looking for now.

Tom:

I think you tied a bunch of things we’re talking about together with what you just said. It was a subtle piece you said, but “work appropriate”. That you want to bring your full self to your resume and speak in your voice but that doesn’t mean you’re wearing like a costume to the interview. That doesn’t mean having black paper with all this wild stuff on it. There are business 101 pieces that shouldn’t take away from who you are but is a pretty common alignment with just business practices as well. Do you have to coach that? Do most people seem to get it? What’s that spread look like?

Claire:

I just did a workshop for recent high school graduates that are going to be going into apprenticeship-type work. At that level, sometimes at college graduate level too, I don’t see that they’re automatically getting it. But they seem to get it more when I describe it as communicate and behave in a way that you’re proud of. If a future employer saw that about you, or read that about you, you would be proud of that. It’s something that you’re again communicating and behaving in a way that’s going to help you in your career advancement and help you attract opportunities. So, when I phrase it that way, they seem to get it.

I try not to do those hard and fast tips like wear the suit or do this or do that. But when I explain it that way, where it’s like your reputation. Your personal brand—I try to intro them to that topic a little bit—is how you behave and communicate and are you doing it in a way that’s going to help your career grow? Are you on LinkedIn specifically? That’s what I talk about a lot like posting and sharing things again that are just relevant to your career. So you might not want to post something about a concert unless you’re an AV engineering student. Then it might be relevant to you. I have to give them a couple examples like that, but that’s really where I like to leave it. They seem to get the picture that way instead of me using words like be professional or something like that because that’s different to everybody.

Tom:

Yeah, I think this resonates. I think when you start telling people what to do and how to do it, what’s yes or no,  or you get into the right and wrong category, you lose people. You lose your audience. It’s not actionable because that’s different scenarios. I really like your approach that is more broad and it just makes more sense. It’s going to help more people I feel than trying to give them a list of dos and don’ts.

Claire:

Yeah, and I’ve been trying to limit my usage of the word professional too, because I know there’s a lot of bias wrapped up in that word. And I’m sure we’ve all heard as TA professionals, managers giving us feedback that they’re passing on a candidate because they weren’t professional and the amount of times we have to dig into that with them. Well, was it how they looked? Was it how they communicated? And then we need to usually do some further coaching on that. I don’t even love doing the like “dress professionally”. I have kind of changed it in my presentations to like “in a way that feels good and authentic to you”. Are you preparing and representing yourself for that job that you want? What is that job going to have to be wearing or doing on a daily basis?

Tom:

Like, I wouldn’t even know what to wear in an interview. Like do I wear a collared shirt? I would imagine at least a colored shirt, but I don’t even know what the right answer is. Like there isn’t one other than be true to yourself be aligned with what you’re trying to align with.

Claire:

Yes, and just feel like you’re putting your best foot forward. So for me that’s always airing on the side of being a little overdressed, but that makes me feel better than worrying about the opposite. Everyone’s threshold of that could be different.

Tom:

I agree.

So I think a lot of what we’re talking about is confidence and I saw in your blog post like empowering people with confidence. Do what you do with confidence. Post with confidence, go learn with confidence. Bringing that confidence. You said in your post, the universe never says no. It’s either yes or not yet, or something is better on the way.

So tell me a little bit more about how you talk about confidence because I think that’s one of the biggest things that people do look for. Are you confident in who you are? Are you confident in what you’re doing? So how do you help coach people to bring that confidence forward early in their career or as they’re out looking for positions?

Claire:

Yeah, I think I’ve just learned over the years that—again cliche statement—but no one’s a better advocate for yourself than you are. Or you really have to know yourself and your accomplishments inside and out, and be able to speak to it if you want to attract those new opportunities and things like that.

Another post I have actually similar to that is Confidently Writing About Yourself, and I’ve helped a couple of friends recently when they’ve had to apply for promotions. There’s so much language in there that’s like disclaimers and things like “this might not be a good idea, but…” No one listens to or reads anything after that disclaimer. So I take that out. Things like, “I believe I’m good at…” I take that out. Replace with “I am good at…”

I love working with people on understanding them in their stories and what they do, and then writing about it. Not to get on a tangent, but continually writing about yourself is like a whole separate skill I feel like. That’s my jam. I love to write. So that’s a whole thing that I love to help people with. But just some tips there if you have any language like that, consider taking it out. You probably don’t need it. Just keeping yourself confident in this environment.

If you’re looking for a job specifically or applying for a promotion, I’d say a few of my favorite things to say on that are: 1) having some sort of support system. So whatever that means to you. I need those external forces. I love hugs and reassurance. I need listening ears. I love doing that for other people too. But a support system of some sort. Whoever those people are to you, friends, family, etc. helps keep me confident.

Having a life of course outside of whatever this priority is right now. I know sometimes looking for a new job really does take up all of your time and kind of defines who you are in a sense. But staying true and making time for—again going back to planning—things I love to do and that reenergize me helps me stay confident to go back to the search.

Again that professional and personal development, that’s probably the biggest one for me. If I’m staying on top of those trends and what people are doing in my community and supporting them and attending events and learning things, I’m much better when I get to an interview. Those types of things motivate and energize me, but also give me cool information to pull from if I get a question I’m not sure about. or Being able to say I was just at this cool event with all these HR people, here’s what we were talking about. The more knowledge I’m armed with, helps me feel confident.

Tom:

I think this is the perfect place to kind of tie everything together. Your sense of well-being as you’re going through looking for a job, changing career, emerging into a career, applying. Going through all this like there’s a lot here as we’ve illustrated. When we first talked, May was Mental Health Awareness Month. I think taking care of yourself and having that well-being is essential to doing everything on the back end. It’s not as direct but the outcomes of being able to be confident and bringing your full self I think really are direct from taking care of yourself.

In tying all this together, how do you help people focus on taking care of themselves? Actually, I’m going to ask that a different way. How do you take care of your well-being with your—what feels like 3 jobs—with everything you’re doing with being a Type A? I know my sisters are both Type A. My mom was type A. A lot of my friends are type A. Like it’s a lot of work. It’s exhausting. How do you find your well-being? Then maybe talk about how you would coach other people to find their well-being and their balance.

Claire:

I found for me, again, staying organized is something I really need. Having goals of any kind I found helps me and a lot of the people I work with as well. I feel like we’re very goal-directed organisms. There’s probably some sort of scientific study on that somewhere. I don’t love science and data and things like that, but I love that having something to work towards. I think it really helps your whole sense of well-being because you need that sense of purpose and things like that.

Well, for me, even sometimes during the day it’s just unloading the dishwasher and walking the dog. And if all those things get highlighted in my planner, I’m like, I’ve had a great day, I’m so productive. It doesn’t have to be the biggest thing ever. But having goals, making sure to hold time for yourself.

So being a leader of people, at work every Monday at 4 o’clock is Zoom therapy. It is blocked. I hold that time. I do not come in. I do not move it for any reason that is work-related. I tell my team when I onboard someone new to my team, I show them my calendar. I encourage them to do the same. I’m like if you have this thing you really need to stick to, to take care of yourself, just let us know. Let me know, hold to it and then communicate it to others as well so they can support you.

I’m very lucky to be in a work environment where that is appreciated and talked about. I know that’s not the case everywhere. And then again, just like fatigue is real, especially being type A. I love to control everything. So sometimes the stress is brought upon myself and I can tire myself out from using all this energy on thinking about things and planning things and whatever. So yeah, scheduling those breaks and things that do reenergize and re-excite me is helpful.

Tom:

Yeah, I’m a type B or C, or definitely not an A. I’m another letter, but actually building out time for me is massive and I’m always on the go, but in a totally different way. When I make it a point to have time for me, it makes such a huge difference. I went into a gym yesterday for the first time in a year. I usually run on my own. If I do a million things. I’m active.

Claire:

You’re always outdoors.

Tom:

But I just felt like I was not consistent and I was having trouble. So literally, on a whim, I just went to a gym and signed up yesterday. I didn’t even know I was doing it when I woke up in the morning. I had a workout and I was like, Oh my gosh, I feel great. Just the empowerment of doing something different. Realizing that what I was doing wasn’t not working, but it wasn’t fully working. Just trying something new for myself made such a difference. Doing something physical for myself, whether it’s a walk, whether it’s just anything, going outside in nature when I’m really stressed, I just take a walk down the path by the creek and I come back feeling better. That’s my two cents. So, I totally agree with you.

Doing something physical, it doesn’t have to be hard. Also just realize what’s working and not working for you and just make a change and make it little. None of this is rocket science. None of this is definitive, but I think it’s having that awareness of where you’re at and just being open to making a change. I didn’t strive to make a change, I fell into making a change. And I think it’s because I was open to it and I’d say that’s a big piece of advice I give people on well-being. Don’t limit yourself. Be open, just go to a different restaurant. Walk a different route in your neighborhood. Those little things will get your endorphins going and we’ll get your brain shooting out that serotonin and make you feel a lot better.

Claire:

I’m so glad you just shared that because I personally needed to hear that.

I’m not a very like on the whim type of person going to go sign up for the gym today, but that was really inspiring.

Tom:

I am not either, but I did it.

Claire:

Yeah, that’s true. I need to change things up a little bit more. That might get those creative juices flowing and everything. So it’s a good point.

Tom:

I was like, am I going to get Claire to come record with me again? And I was like, let’s just meet somewhere I. Don’t even know where. Let’s just do it. I just did it.

Claire:

This is a good spot.

Tom:

I just texted you out of nowhere. Yeah, we ended up in a good spot. And as we’ve been podcasting, I guess there’s an airport somewhere over a hill I can’t see that was making a lot of noise, but this thunderstorm has come in and cooled off. We have not gotten rained on, so I mean what a perfect afternoon. This is great Claire.

Claire:

Yes, this was fun.

Tom:

This has been awesome. How much longer are you in Denver?

Claire:

Another week. Yes until August 7.

Tom:

Ohh, so you’ll see a couple more thunderstorms.

Claire:

I will, yeah.

Tom:

You seeing any EDM or music while you’re here?

Claire:

Music. Yes. I’m actually going to see The Maine for their self-titled album release show. So that’s happening while I’m here. It’s at the Fillmore.

Tom:

Oh yeah, that place is fun.

Claire:

Yeah, love the Maine and Real Friends is opening for them, so that’s another band that I love. So no EDM, but definitely doing some music while I’m here.

Tom:

You should check out the bar crawl on Colfax, which is where the Fillmore is. There are some class old school bars. There’s some real interesting places to get into in that part of Denver. So I would tell you explore.

Claire:

Okay, that sounds fun. Thank you.

Tom:

Awesome. I really appreciate you doing this. Even cooler meeting you, we’ll probably talk longer once we stop this, but before we wrap it up, where can people find you? We’ll put links to all this. We’ll put links to some of the blog posts and resources you’ve spoken to, but go ahead and say it. Where can people find you?

Claire:

Yes. Find me at claireiscoaching.com. So that’s the anchor to everything. My Twitter and LinkedIn and all of that is linked right to the site. I’m really proud of my blog there. I do love it. Creating and curating resources. I know you love doing that too. Pretty much everybody in the HR community is great at that.

Tom:

It just kind of happens.

Claire:

I love putting things together to help my network so definitely check out my site. You can find me and contact me there.

Tom:

Claire, it’s been a pleasure. We are off and running. Season 4 of All About HR. Our great first episode. We’re going to go get some cool drinks.

We will see you all down the road, welcome back!

. . .

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